Thank for the info and tips.

My problem is that I have the wrong controller for an EFI 8 1200. The first thing I noticed that it did not have the ability to set up a 2nd fan even though it was in the wiring harness and that is how I wired my fans. No place to set AFR for boost, no nitrous control. Just flat out wrong controller. Was told that it could be fixed with software, a good feature but I need it to be sent.

 

Update: Got the new software and did the reload. FiTech was trying to send the software and it was not getting to me. Finally got it straightened out.

 

Now have some driving time on the system. I will never go back to a carburetor. So much better throttle response, drivability and for me horsepower. Going from a 650 cfm carb to the FiTech 835 cfm throttle body has just made 46 year old motor rip. Half throttle is better than full throttle used to be.

Next problem is getting the logging feature to work. Waiting for response from tech on this one. I would really like to get that to work before I really start to lean on it at WOT.

 

I am glad you are having a good response from your application, but I have some connections to a leading Pro Stock outfit and they lost 25 HP trying to go to injection. There is a reason that Pro Stock uses Carbs, and it isn't because they have less power potential. Likewise, a best friend was running a mechanical Enderle Bug on a 20% over driven 0.80 over 427 Chevy with over 0.700 lift and the Power loss from going to a BDS EFI hat over the Mechanical was very substantial, let alone all the burping and farting it added to the system. I know Mike Moran personally through one of my best buddies who has known him since he was a High School kid, and Mike has the best injectors out there that I am aware of.

Check out www.moranmotorsports.com http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrB...rts.com//RK=0/RS=GjThxW0wyBDFBvnUg2ZgQE8gI5o-

If you are not familiar with him as a Racer.

Mike designed and sells his own billet block, billet heads, billet intake, and injectors. He wants to develop his own turbos and is presently making 4,800 HP on Alcohol and has the first door slammer in the 5's

 

How many cubes were you trying to boost with a 650 cfm carb??

 

Twisted, you will notice I said for me on the HP. Every combination has is a compromise. For my 455 Buick there are a bunch of them. First it is a street car. I may put it on a track someday but that is the least important part of what I do with the car. With my 46 year old motor and the D-1 Procharger I am sure that I can make enough HP to give it a very short rest of its life. With the fuel injection you can do a very safe and consistent tune.

Vince, the 650 worked very well at 5 pounds of boost. With the new pulley and 8 psi the mid range cruise went to hell. At that point I went into power valve hell. No matter what was tried it was either way fat at cruise and part throttle or going lean at WOT. The next step seemed to be sending the carb to CSU to get the power valve fixed. This was not cheap and still would leave me with a carb that would need a lot of tuning for the street manners I wanted. Then FiTech came out with affordable EFI and it seemed like the way to go.

The 650 is small for a 455 but that was the compromise for street use. Before the supercharger I ran a custom 950 HP.

So as I cruised down I-75 at 2500 rpm (80 mph) and AFR's were 14's instead of 11 and 12's it seems like a good decision.

 

Doug,

I just don't understand why you would think you need a smaller carb for a boosted application, even for the street?

Yes, I am an FE Ford guy, but not a snob. I owned a 455 Buick, a 455 Olds, a 400 Pontiac, and a 427 Chevy when I was younger.

I don't claim to know everything, that is why I joined this forum was to pick others minds and learn, but it just seems counter intuitive to me to go that small on a 455 for ANY application. I meen hell, it isn't a race engine by your own admission, but for race with a little 6-71 huffer, Enderle recommends their Bug Catcher hat for engines UNDER 425 cubic inches! The bug catcher is their smallest hat and flows 3,300 cfm!

A 950 HP Carb on the other hand seems to large for a 455 Buick unless there are aftermarket heads involved.

A lot of people are unaware that Holley not only made and still makes the 660 cfm center squirter, but they also used to make an 880 CFM Center Squirter as well. I don't know you, or very much about your car, but it seems to me with your light amount of boost that one of these old 880 Center Squirters would really wake your car up over a 650.

Was your 650 a double pumper or a vacume secondary Carb.

If there is solid theory on the use of such a small carb in even such a lightly boosted application, then please school me as I would have never achieved the knowledge that I do have if I wasn't willing to listen, and listening with intelligent discussion and questions is what has allowed me to meet and learn from giants in the sport.

By the way, I live just 3 miles off of I-75 where it intersects with US 30 and my real name is Roger Gordon. Thought it funny how similar that is to Gorton! Anyhow, how close are you to Bill Coon, Mike Moran, Jack Roush, Barry Robotnick in Michigan?? You have access to some real legends right there in Michigan

Roger

 

Roger, Thanks for the interest in my project. I have been to Barry's shop a couple of times and my grandson (3 years old) and I went to the Roush open house this year. So you have had all the BOP 455's and now are into FE Fords You must really like beating your head against a wall I am a little farther north in the Fenton area.

A little about Buicks. They like big carbs. 950 Holley's work just fine on mildly modified Buick 455's. Of course you can go on for a while about how they get the various cfm ratings on the carbs and what it really means. When I was playing with carbs before the blower I really liked an 830 circle track carb I borrowed as much as the custom 950 I had.

My Buick is a 1970 455 30 over so 462 CI. Has 1970 ported Stage 1 heads, custom Scott Brown solid lifter cam and TA single plane manifold. Block is very stock, forged pistons (9.25:1 CR) ARP studs and bolts on everything but stock crank and rods. It has a very unusual oil pan. It was built by Poston's 20 years ago and works like the differential covers that have the cap screw support built into them. Bobb Makely at Finishline built the motor with all the tricks needed to make a Buick live. Bobb used to work at Steve Morris in Grand Rapids.

Blow through carbs are a totally different critter from what you would put on top of an old style roots blower. The theory is that with the smaller carb it is easier to get enough fuel into the air stream to keep from going lean on the top end. You can spend days on the turbo forums looking at blow through carb threads and some of the wild things they do to get them to work.

I spent a month getting the 650 QuickFuel blow through carb to work pretty good at 5 psi. Still had all of the race carb start antics and temperature/weather changes that would effect the tune.

 

I had a 650 C&S carb on my 496, I was told by a tech from C&S that I need a bigger carb so I got an 850 C&S. The guy at C&S that talked me into getting the 850 no longer works for Roger. It is the biggest mistake I have made on this engine, it ran 100% better with the 650, wish I never took it off and sold it. Mine is a street car with less then 10lbs of boost from a D1sc, I have been going through a lot of pain to get the carb dialed in and it is still not happy while cruising.

 

Some of the biggest problems the FE has are not enough bore center, only 4 head bolts per cylinder, the stock cylinder walls are to thin for any real cylinder pressure, and the bottom ends must be cross bolted for any serious application.

Still, I do not believe in nor have I ever been into the idea of stroker motors. The rod angle gets bad and the engine tries to put the power into side loads and starts trying to rip the block apart.

Look at NHRA Pro Stock limited to 500 cubic inches and the power they make compared to IHRA mountain motors running 800 and 900 cubic inches making only a few hundred horsepower more. You not only run out of CFM in the head to fill those cylinders, the engine is literally trying to kill itself.

I understand the stroker theory on small blocks that are naturally aspirated trying to make more low end grunt on a heavy street car to get it moving and to be more street friendly, but it absolutely seems counter intuitive to me to want stroke in a boosted application. Case in point, there is another thread here with a guy that has a 1980 Monza with a 350 small block that just put new pistons in after holing a cast slug. He wants to build a stroker 383, that is a 350 bore, with a 400 stroke. Now his boost is going to make more low end torque and traction is already going to be a problem, plus, with a car this light, why would you even need to increase low end numbers further? It seems to me that a 377, a 400 bore with a 350 stroke, will not only make more horsepower than a 383, all else being equal, it will make those numbers at a higher RPM which is more useable on the street where we have limited traction already.

Have you ever seen the guts of a modern Pro Stock these days? I have had the opportunity, and they look like a GIANT small block. Think 5.0 inch + pistons with no stroke. They are now running 1.100" and 1.200" lift on the cams and turning 11,500 RPM out of 500 cubic inches!

In the billet Block that Mike Moran has developed, the cam bore is actually physically larger than the main journals to allow for mega lift cams with a larger base circle that makes these huge lift cams easier to follow for the lifter.

Yes, I have played with the big factory 455's, but they have many problems of their own, just different than those of the FE, and I have always been a sucker for a Hemi, and overhead cams, if somebody copied the FORD 255 cubic inch Indy magnesium block engine with the intake port through the middle of the cam valley, and made it in a large displacement, I would buy one

In the end, it is your project and seems like a passion for you after all these years and that is all that matters. That 1967 "S" code 390 fastback GT was my first car and I bought it when I had my first job when I was 15

Roger

 

Problem with too large carbs and boost is part throttle when you're not in the boost its like having a naturally aspirated engine and you can have not enough air velocity.

 

Exactly the problem I am having! Why I liked the 650 better. I was told the 650 under boost actually acts more like a 1300(again it is what I was told by someone with more knowledge then me).

 

OK, got the log file to work. Simply had to go into the handheld and make a file called log_file. Also got the FiTech software to install. Found out by accident that you cannot be connected to wi fy when doing the install. Have no idea why. Next is to figure out why I do not have the K-line installation file.

Biggest problem that FiTech has is they do not have a comprehensive manual with online software support. Could also get the blog working so users can help each other.

 

So here is a screenshot of a log using the FiTech software. There is only on short "hit" at about 240. Boost is short of what I expected, need to check the belt again. The spikes on the AFR are caused by a blank line in the afr data. So there are advantages to being able to look at data in a spreadsheet. #ad

 

Just getting into using the data logging. Will have some plots in a few days. This was just a quick log driving home from local show.

Can't do shift points. Trans is a TH 200-4r. I do not think the Fitech ECU does anything with transmissions even if they are computer controlled.

You can plot 6 parameters. More than enough in my opinion. Would be real cluttered with more.

So right now the big problem is computers. I have 3 computers, on laptop does not run the software correctly (win 10) another laptop that runs the software great but refuses to recognize the handheld (win 7)and an old PC that runs everything perfectly.

Things I need to check. I see only 70% on the TPS and I thought I was at WOT. Boost seems low, 5 psi @ 5000 rpm. Will check belt.

 

Hey Boostedbuick
Haven't been here for a while. looks like you going great guns. I haven't had time to do much on mine. I did hook up the hand held screen and went for a test run. I don't know how to data log yet but will have to find out. I did one full rpm boost in 2nd gear with my son holding the screen watching it for me. He said the afr was 19 and I nearly died.lol I did another run and got him to record it with his phone.
In the 1st few seconds of the run the afrs jump down to high 11s and then even out in the low 12s for the rest of the run. I think this is fairly safe. I didn't think of looking at the TPS but I will as it should read 100% at WOT I guess.
Can you tell me where you got the software to load on your computer to log data. Was it on a disc or downloaded from somewhere.
thanks Maca

 

Basically your hand held controller is a flash drive. You should be able to connect to a Windows computer with the USB cable that came with your kit. It is the same cable that most Android phones use. If you are lucky when you connect your hand held your computer will automatically recognize the handheld as a new drive. Oh, you do have to select the USB connection on the handheld. I have one computer that refuses to see the handheld and I understand that is not uncommon. That is a Windows problem not FiTechs.

The places you want to look are; the files at the bottom of the list that have documents with directions, the log_file folder that will have dashboard files that are the logs, and the Fitech software folders.

You will need a RAR reader to unpack the software files. You can also open the dashboard files in Excel.

Good luck and let me know what you get to work. We are kind of on our own with this stuff right now.